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Pastor Steve Hickey appears to call his fellow South Dakotans who oppose Initiated Measure 11 (and the abuse of science, truth, and women's rights) "swine."
Pastor Hickey should know: he suckled at the theological teat of swine extraordinaire Ted Haggard:
Photo credits: Thomas Hickey, "Ukraine" album, Steve Hickey's public Facebook page, added November 24, 2007. Downloaded 2008.08.14 from http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=449415&op=2&o=all&view=all&subj=752443086&id=509358688 (top photo) and http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=449475&op=1&o=all&view=all&subj=752443086&id=509358688 (bottom photo).
are you sure you want to use the word "teat" when refering to Ted Hagard I am sure there is another part of the male anatomy that would fit better.
ReplyDeleteDo you know the swine comment is a quote from Jesus? I used it referring to you specifically regarding how you took a belief I held dear (a pearl, which in that context was that I actually believe if you live right God will bless you) and you were trampling that belief. It is not true as you say that I was using that verse to refer the whole body of people against Initiative Measure 11. But you don't really need the whole story to do what you do.
ReplyDeleteThe connection between Ted Haggard and I is quite known in the Christian community around the region. Whatever. And the John Edwards supporters are all adulterers who cheat on their dying wives, right? Is that your point... that because Ted was a hypocrite everyone who knew him is too? I'm sure the picture will be helpful for a few days for you all to divert the attention off the real reality that abortion is wrong. Answer this question, do you think abortion is wrong?
Well I want nothing to do with these ultra conservative churches like Haggard's or any of the other really conservative churches that are springing up around SD.
ReplyDeletesteve hickey:
ReplyDeleteDo you honestly believe that "being faithful to god" will lead to direct, tangible, economic or other benefits. Is "GOD" changing how the world works to benefit a specific group of people?
More to the point, have you just proposed a method of testing whether or not god exists!
So, we get 1000 non-believers and 1000 believers that have been statistically leveled for socioeconomic status, schooling, age, gender, health, etc. We then have both the nonbelievers and believers work hard, but in addition have the believers pray to become very wealthy.
If after a certain period of time the believers are all millionaires and the nonbelievers are still just average we could then conclude that "GOD" has helped a selected group.
Seriously though, the bible doesn't explicitly outlaw abortion. You at best are interpreting verses to mean that it isn't allowed. I think it's also fair to assume that you don't have a weekly sit down with "GOD" that allows you to clarify exactly what is and isn't allowed. In the absence of "GOD" explicitly forbidding something, should the decision be left up to the individual? Or has "GOD" given you authority to declare the intent of his will?
Pastor Hickey: "Is abortion wrong?" -- I know you'd rather have that discussion, but that's not the right question to take to the polls. The more relevant question when we mark our ballots is whether IM11 is good public policy. And IM11 is not good public policy.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, do you really need to cast your perceived enemies as Biblically illiterate to help your argument? "Pearls to the swine" is a commonly cited Biblical passage; one doesn't have to attend your Church at the Gate to know that.
And to clarify: I'm not talking about John Edwards (or John McCain, but thanks for reminding us), and I'm not making any generalization or insinuation about your marital fidelity. I'm just reminding folks that you got your theology from Ted Haggard and remain proud enough of your association with him to post your photo with him on your public profile.
nonono, Cory. Answer the question - is abortion wrong? When you answer that fundamental question, and say, as I think you will, that abortion is wrong, then you have to then ask yourself what is the right way to stop the wrong. And that is what pro-life people debate and then you will start to see how IM11 is a masterful approach to stopping that which is wrong.
ReplyDeleteProud of my association with Haggard? I guess so, really I don't distance myself from anyone struggling with homosexuality. Do you? Ted's double life hurt a lot of us profoundly and tarished the name of Jesus but it didn't even cross my mind to expunge my photo album of any pictures of him.
To clarify though, I was in ministry and had all my theological degrees 15 years before I even met Ted. He never even went to seminary and so it's really not the case I "got my theology from him." I'm still happy to be a part of the network of churches he brought together - that's what is meant by "I'm from his camp." You are entering my world when you dig into my church blog so I can appreciate how the language could possibly seem foriegn to you and you could rush to inaccurate conclusions hoping to better make your point. The irony of my statement that I'm from Ted's camp is that this network of churches does not encourage pastors to do what I'm doing politically. I'm an odd duck in that group. In case you care, none of us have heard from Ted since 11/06 but that's been his choice and has nothing to do with any of us distancing ourselves from association with him.
You notice how there's an ad on the side of the second facebook page for "sexy singles" with an attractive young woman? Wow, the ad generator really misread the bunch in that photo.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Steve, for the clarification of the "camp" comment, and I apologize for misinterpreting your comment about your theological relationship with Haggard. I'm also pleased to see that you, unlike Haggard, actually have theological degrees.
ReplyDeleteI remain disappointed that you appear to have gotten bad theological training. Oil (and other material blessings) for piety? For taking one political stand against one particular sin while sins (child abuse, adultery, drunkenness, usury [?], etc.) continue unabated? Yikes.
Homosexuality: no, I don't distance myself from homosexuals, whether they are "struggling" with it or whether they are accepting and embracing it as part of their natural identity.
"Is abortion wrong?" No, that's still the wrong question. You want to make one easy moral declaration and think that your work is done. Maybe that's a masterful rhetorical approach, but it ignores the hard work of making practical, workable public policy based on fact that produces the results it promises (IM11 won't stop abortion) without destroying Constitutional liberty. That takes longer to explain than it does to bleat "Live baby good, dead baby bad," but it's the conversation we have to have when we start making laws.
In my view, a lot of things are "wrong" that aren't illegal, like poverty and hunger. Is Pastor Hickey trying to make those illegal, too?
ReplyDeletei hope you're joking. poverty and hunger illegal? they should make blindness illegal to. no more legally blind people!
ReplyDelete