...Here's Obama speaking at a forum sponsored by WJLA-ABC7 and Politico.com on Feb. 12, 2008: "I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of people — law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families (emphasis added). We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage…We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measures that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions.”
That doesn't sound to us like someone planning to "ban use of firearms for home defense." Quite the opposite, actually [PolitiFact.com, downloaded 2008.09.23].
Not that this will stop the NRA from continuing its lies. But I find myself increasingly annoyed at how much influence the NRA wields purely by lies and fear-mongering and not any rational proposal to solve the major problems facing this country.
Just what solutions has the NRA proposed or implemented to make life better for all Americans? What good has the NRA done, ever? All those pistols in your drawers and assault rifles in your closet: How well have they helped you keep your job? How much more food do those guns put on your table (and please itemize the full cost per meal, including ammunition, maintenance, and person-hours tromping through slough and shelterbelt)? How well have those guns helped you refinance your mortgage? Find affordable health insurance? Get your kids through college? Fight corporate greed and reform Washington?
In my younger days, I might have been persuaded that we need our guns so we can keep our government scared that a well-armed citizen militia might rise up to challenge any attempt at tyranny. But that's bunk: even if there are brave NRA members with great stockpiles of heavy weaponry in their bunkers, ready to play Minuteman, I haven't seen them lock and load and march on Washington over anything. The thought of Gooney McBuckshot oilin' up his AK-47 in the barn hasn't stopped President Bush from asking for $700 billion for his Secretary to play mortgage czar.
Senator Barack Obama offers plans to fix the economy, create green jobs, get America off foreign oil, give tax breaks to 95% of Americans, make health care more affordable, and tackle a bunch of other pressing problems, and the NRA spreads lies because they're afraid they won't get to shoot as many tin cans with their toys.
The NRA lies, and they miss the big picture. Guns offer no solutions to the real problems this country faces. A good economic plan will stop a lot more crime than Granny on the front porch with a machine gun.
No one's coming to take our guns, not Barack Obama, not Tim Johnson, not anyone asking for your vote. So put your rifle back on the shelf—or the locked cabinet—where it belongs, and let's focus on how we're going to solve the real problems of the economy, energy, and health care.
The NRA isn't any different than other Special Interest Groups out there. My hubby wont vote for any candidate that isn't NRA approved (that's his choice, not mine).
ReplyDeleteWhile you are pointing out lies the NRA has made, what is your take on this story. Looks like Biden and Obama opened mouth and inserted foot.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/biden.earmarks/index.html
That is the most ridiculous and hypocrital article I have read in quite a while. There are no facts to support the writer's assertions that the NRA "lies". In fact the NRA goes out of its way to make sure that it has it's facts straight. And yes gunowners are and should be very afraid that laws will be passed to make them turn in their guns. Both Obama and Biden are very anti-gun rights, and both have backed legislation to outlaw various firearms. So if you have anything other than a single shot break action shotgun, and if you want to keep it, you had better listen to the NRA and vote for the McCain-Palin ticket.
ReplyDeleteNo, it's spatin's comment that is pure assertion. And I see no response to the real point from either commenter: what good do the NRA and all those guns do us? How is any of this hyperbole about guns solving any of the real problems Americans face? McCain could promise to give every citizen ten AK-47s, but would that improve the economy, education, or health care? Stop distracting us, NRA: tell us how to deal with real problems.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, spatin, quit wishing/lying and do your homework: the original PolitiFact exposé lists seven sources. And you backed up your assertions with how many sources?
ReplyDeleteIf you don't want to vote for Obama, just say so. But don't make stuff up to rationalize your choice.
This is my rifle. This is my gun. This one's for fighting. This one for fun!
ReplyDeleteGo to ILGA.gov. go to proevous general assemblies and look up years 2003-2004. go to search and look up SB-1195 semi-auto/12 ga ban and SB-2165 home defense bill.
ReplyDeleteObama voted to ban 11-87 shotguns and ruger 10-22 rifles.
he thought a man who defended his familiy from an intruder should be prosecuted because of the local handgun ban
how many more votes or bills would you like? I loobbied him, he never said it was an inidividual right until he was runiing for president.
Todd
"NRA Respects Second Amendment; Obama Keeps Lying"
ReplyDeleteWhat an awful and deceitful article. How can you sleep at night?
Ditto to what gunlobby says. The records are replete with examples of statements, votes, and legislation sponsored by NoBama and Biden where they are most clearly interested in taking away most if not all of our guns, semi-automatics, pumps, handguns, everything. You should do your homework caheidelberger before you jump down someone's throat and make false accusations against the NRA and its members. I'll stand by what I said earlier. We like our guns and we already have a sacrosanct right to have them. Nuff said about that.
ReplyDeleteGuns to sportsmen are like pens to writers. Do you need more than one? No, but it's cool playing with the different ones out there.
ReplyDeleteThis is another issue like abortion: gun right activists see it as a black/white issue. I just bought a nice handgun, enjoy trapshooting, and went through boot camp for that matter. But after looking up the word sacrosanct I can't agree. Again we are so thankful to not have big city problems, but after living in more than one and spending time in some really bad areas, I want reasonable gun restrictions.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble with gun restriction laws is that they won't prevent crime because the criminals will still have the guns (you see, they don't abide by the laws anyway). It has been shown that more gun laws have the opposite effect on preventing crime.
ReplyDeleteAnd if a person is illegally in my home and is threatening my family or my life in my own home, that person is the criminal, not me, and if he gets hurt by a gun while committing the crime, again he is the criminal, not me as the homeowner. Anything else is plain ridiculous!
From the Obama campaign web site. Note the call for banning semi-auto rifles.
ReplyDelete"Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment ... Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets."
The saddest thing about these most most recent posts is the same as in the abortion issue: they happily ignore all of the other issues that their "pro-gun" candidates will affect. Will their kids stagger under the debt load incurred by this generation of "pro-gun" legislators, who also happen to vote in favor of deficit creating entitlements and tax cuts and wars to finish what daddy didn't, and laissez-faire financial structures that have to be rescued by the government they despise? Will their grandkids have the same freedoms and luxuries of abundant energy and food and public education and societal infrastructure that this generation has enjoyed? Who cares--it's so much easier to digest the pablum fed to them by the NRA. Life is so much easier when you can distill your decision making process down to one defining issue. Why complicate life by using the brains God gave us to figure out right and wrong ourselves when we have the NRA to tell us which candidates pass the simplified litmus test they choose to define as "pro-gun?"
ReplyDeleteAs long as our citizenry surrenders its intelligence to this "life is simple" approach, our democracy will continue on the road to certain ruin. I have no patience for NRA members with above average intelligence. They really ought to know better and ought to care enough about our future to help the rest of us do something about it.
Got news for "anonymous"..this ain't a Democracy. It's a Constitutional Republic. Democracy means mob rule. Youonly have those rights that the majority think you should have. IN a Republic, your rights are not up for a vote. The magority means nothing where your rights are concerned. The 2nd Amendment is a RIGHT that is NOT up for a vote. Protecting my rights far exceeds the importance of any other issue...period.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I've ever seen another article with so many Strawmen in it. The whole thing is obfuscation, lies on top of lies, mis-direction, non-sequiters and non-starters. Just in case no one noticed, the Arms industry in the United States of America brings in Billions of Dollars in Taxes every year with no downside.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter whether Guns are outlawed, or not, but criminals much prefer that, because they will be the only ones outside of Law Enforcement with guns. Nothing you can do will prevent this. No law will affect criminals, except to make their jobs easier.
If you doubt this, here's a test: Have someone print up a bunch of very large signs (and pass them out to your Anti-Gun neighbors), that read, "This Home is a Gun Free Zone," and, make sure you've got one prominently displayed in 'your' front yard.
I think you will find it an interesting, but, very short time before these signs are replaced by signs that read, "This home protected by Smith and Wesson" (Ruger, Berreta, HK, Thompson Contender, etc.).
But, you won't do that, will you, because you know that Strawmen, or, Strawdogs won't hunt.
Well, look at it this way.
ReplyDeleteThe NRA is basing its position on Obama's documented past statements, and not just relying on what he says now. It's all right there, just check the cites.
If you think this is an invalid course of reasoning, will you also agree that it is invalid to use McCain's documented past statements, and not jsut what he says now, to "prove" that he is NOT a "maverick who breaks with this party?"
As a matter of verifiable fact, Obama supported the unconstitutional dc gunban, his website wants to renew the assault weapons ban and he thinks that it is all right for the US constitution to mean one thing in Chicago and another thing in Montana. Obama is the most anti gun candidate for pres. I can ever recall and I have been voting for longer than I care to admit. You piece is just trying to wallpaper over Obama's anti gun stand. Obama is a Marxist and an anti gun extremist. (period)
ReplyDeleteTo debunk charletans like this one refer to :
ReplyDeletehttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,427347,00.html
You will see that Obama is a gun hater. If you are a gun hater, you hate America jmho.
To Jones girl, you obviously favor Obama. That's fine. But that's only your opinion that he will fix things better than McCain. For those of us who prefer McCain, the gun issue is only one part of the reasons we are supporting him. Most people look at all the issues and vote for the candidate that in their opinion will do the best job in protecting them and the future of this country. Don't make it sound that gun owners only pick a candidate based on this one issue, some do, most don't. Same as any other issue.
ReplyDeleteIf you want income redistribution, higher gas prices, higher taxes, loss of American autonomy in the world, vote Obama. If not, vote McCain.
Why is it just the NRA that is getting bashed? Like I said. They are a SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP. All that they care about are gun laws. Makes sense to me.
ReplyDeleteThe words have come out of Obamas mouth and his voting record supports it. So why all the questions???
Fact-Checking FactCheck.Org on Obama and Guns
ReplyDeletehttp://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmQ4ZTRiZGNkMTIwNTczODI5NjZlZDE0MjMyNDcxNDA=
Paraphrasing: If you disagree with the NRA, you're a Marxist America-hater. Right. [sarcasm]
ReplyDeletePennyPincher, you're right that the NRA is a special interest group focused on gun issues. But my question still stands: why is that issue so important? What good do those assualt weapons and other guns do? And how do those sacred guns help us solve any of the real problems facing the country?
I don't mind folks joining special interest groups. We all have our hobbies -- motorcycles, guns, woodworking, knitting, gardening, take your pick. But we're electing the President of the United States, not a club member. And we're also not supposed to lie: Obama recognizes we need a balance between (1) sports and self-defense and (2) the real dangers of gang violence and other crimes in big cities. He's not going to ban using your gun for self-defense, and he's not going to take away your shotgun.
It's sad that now the liars are getting away with calling the few who are revealing the truth "liars". The Media has finally taken clear sides, and are hiding the truth on purpose. Obama filled out forms calling for gun bans, voted for every gun ban he could, and is still calling for gun bans. He sponsored a bill to force gun stores out of business.
ReplyDeleteI used to be embarrased at those bumper stickers that said, "he's not my president" because if elected under our system I would consider him my president even if i didn't vote for him. Now, if Obama gets elected due to obvious fraud, I won't consider him my president.
Remember, the SCOTUS has ruled that Felons do not need to register their guns, because that would infringe on their 4th amendment rights against self-incrimination. That being said, why could you even consider gun bans / registration as reasonable restrictions? All of the despots of the 20th century (Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol-Pot, etc) have used registration lists to confiscate guns before they started the annihilation of their subjects. Citizens are armed, subjects aren't. THATS how guns help America.
ReplyDeleteAwwwwww, another shill for Obama. OK, here are the FACTS:
ReplyDeleteFactCheck is wrong. Obama supported local handgun bans in the Chicago area by opposing any allowance for self-defense. Obama opposed an Illinois bill (SB 2165, 2004) that would have created an "affirmative defense" for a person who used a prohibited firearm in self-defense in his own home.
As FactCheck notes, the bill was provoked by a case where a Wilmette, Ill. homeowner shot an intruder in self-defense in his home; the homeowner's handgun was banned by a town ordinance. (After the U.S. Supreme Court found Washington, D.C.'s similar ban unconstitutional, Wilmette repealed the ordinance to avoid litigation.)
The legislation was very plainly worded, but as limited as its protection was, Obama voted against it in committee and on the floor:
It is an affirmative defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits, regulates, or restricts the private ownership of firearms if the individual who is charged with the violation used the firearm in an act of self-defense or defense of another ...when on his or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business.
If a person cannot use a handgun for self-defense in the home without facing criminal charges, self-defense with handguns in the home is effectively banned.
Even aside from SB 2165, Obama's support for a total handgun ban (see below) would be a crippling blow to defense in the home, since (as the Supreme Court recently affirmed) handguns are "the most preferred firearm in the nation to 'keep' and use for protection of one's home and family." (District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S.Ct. 2783, 2818 (2008)).
So Obama sez it's OK to HAVE a gun, you just can't USE IT.
Corey,
ReplyDeleteGun issues are just as important as the abortion issue. It comes down to a right(or a choice).
Why are guns so important? The firearms industry is just that, an industry. You elimante any part of it, and hundreds (or maybe thousands) of people are out of jobs. So why are guns so imporant? Without them, South Dakota loses a major source of income. No more out of state hunters bringing hundreds of thousands of dollars to the State of South Dakota during pheasant and deer seasons.
Why is it when people talk about guns they automatically reference assault weapons? Did you know the standard .243 deer rifle is a larger caliber of gun that an AR15 (which eveyone considers an assualt rifle)? Are you aware that it is illegal to own a fully automatic weapon, unless you are in law enforcement?
As someone already stated on here, criminals are criminals, and if they are to get guns, they will have them. Trust me, I don't want to be a law abiding citizen and have my house broken into with someone that has a gun and me with nothing.
PennyPincher: no one is banning pheasant or deer hunting.
ReplyDeleteDonW: Despotism? Yeah, our guns did a bang-up job stopping the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping.
So I'm still waiting: anyone here solve any problems with a gun today? Anyone see a way to use all these guns to solve the economic crisis, build roads, or make health care affordable? Or are you satisfied to let the NRA continue to provide cover for uninformed voters who think about nothing but this peripheral issue?
So what is your hang up with guns anyway Corey? Or are you just mad they are pointing out the facts that Obama isn't the best candidate?
ReplyDeletePeople don't vote for policians because they are pro-choice/pro-life. How are abortions(or lack there of) going to make a difference in world peace, building roads, easing economic hardships and providing health care?
Your argulment can be used in a variety of ways. Fact is, Obama doesn't like guns and it has been proven by his voting record. You can't argue that one.
I have no hang-up about guns, PennyPincher. I've shot and killed stuff. And I don't get mad about people pointing out facts (of course, I'm still waiting for said facts... ;-) ). My hang-up is the NRA's inability to tell me why their little hobby is so vital to American politics. It's as if the National Hockey League was telling us we've got to vote for Green candidates because global warming will take away our God-given right to play hockey outdoors. Guns just aren't important enough to decide a political race, whether it's a small-town mayor or President.
ReplyDelete"People don't vote for policians because they are pro-choice/pro-life." Actually, a lot of them do. They don't want to think about real solutions, just the emotional issue of their choice.
"How are abortions(or lack there of) going to make a difference in world peace, building roads, easing economic hardships and providing health care?"
That is a fair question. If you gave me two candidates, one who fights IM11 but gets everything else wrong and another who supports IM11 but also agrees with me on the economy, education, health care, and taxes (like my neighbor Gerry Lange, I think), I'd likely vote for the latter.
caheidelberger ---
ReplyDelete"He's not going to ban using your gun for self-defense, and he's not going to take away your shotgun."
first he tried to do just that with his 4 votes against SB-2165. he thought that Hale Demar should be arrecsted, charged, and convicted for defending his family with a hadngun. that is why we need to pass the bill.
second Obama voted for a bill to have people surrender their "shotguns" to local lawenforcement. shotguns like my remington 11-87 and benelli. rifles like my sons' ruger 10-22. Pistols like those used for the olympics.
It's not the guns per say but the violating of the right that is protected. I'm a bulldozer operator and I got it right -- "the right of the people..."
he never supported an individual right until he started running for president. I know I sat in his office and talked to him about it.
You can retort that what about wires taps of FISA or patriot act, the difference to gun owners is tangible. they see the loss of their property. they see their ability not to buy something or harrassed when they do, so it is a policy with tangable qaulities that will dirrectly effect people so they can relate to it.
In 1994, we saw guns taken off the market. We saw the prices skyrocket.
As for solving problems with a gun, ask the store clerks in the news I think in KC about solving their prolems with a gun. I just don't plan to be a story on the evening news with the tag line:
"police are looking for clues to a deadly carjacking..."
Todd
"You can retort that what about wires taps of FISA or patriot act, the difference to gun owners is tangible. they see the loss of their property."
ReplyDeleteTodd, you hit on an important point. Gooney McBuckshot gets his knickers in a twist over the bogus fear that Obama's going to come take his shotgun. Gooney can grasp that argument, because he can't grasp his gun. Problem is, he has a harder time grasping the less tangible but more important rights the Bush Administration has been taking away with those wiretaps, FISA, and the Patriot Act. I hear the rhetoric that guns help us defend our freedoms, but we see a growing federal government taking away those freedoms even while we have all these guns in our closets. Do you see the disconnect there? Guns aren't protecting our freedoms. Guns are the wrong issue.
I think the point is being missed here the right to bear arms has nothing to do with hunting. The right to bear arms was written and still supported today by various supreme court decisions most recently in the Heller decision they found an individual has the right to possess a firearm to defend them selves from an aggressor if they choose to.
ReplyDeleteNow before you go on about assault weapons, what you are refering to is not an assault weapon. The semi-automatic weapons that look like military weapons are not easily convertable to full automatic as the press would have you belive.
Today there are a great number of hunters going into the field with seimi auto AR15's, AK47's, and various other weapons including a 12ga which resembles an AK47. these weapons will serve well as a hunting weapon as well as home defense weapon, just as any handgun of choice will also serve the self defence role.
So before you go on bashing gun rights advocates, this is about every persons right to choose to defend ones self using a firearm, just as the 1st ammendment protects every persons right to freedom of speech. Right corey?
The fear in goverment is when they start to take away one paticular right in the name of protecting the populace. Any one of the other rights are next. It is seen through out history in countless places at different times.
Today England & Austrial both have some of the highest gun crimes in the world, and they have an almost total gun ban. So who has the guns there you ask? The criminals, Military, and Law Enforcement officials if they are lucky.
So for me I choose to keep all of my rights, and cannot vote for anyone who will take anyone of them away from me or anyone else.
Cory, you said,"MMy hang-up is the NRA's inability to tell me why their little hobby is so vital to American politics."
ReplyDeleteYou have it completely wrong. This isn't "their little hobby." They are protecting a right granted to us by our Constitution. It's just that simple.
You are all for not giving up our rights granted under the Constitution when it involves wiretapping, Gitmo, etc. How can you not see this is the same thing?
The experts agree:
ReplyDeleteGUN CONTROL WORKS!!!
Just ask:
Hitler
Kim Jong-il
Castro or
Stalin
All had repressive gun laws that disarmed their people bofore they started killing them off.
Jay of Yuma, AZ
caheidlberger, Have you forgotten that democrats were also involved in voting for the war, the patriot act and other violations of our rights and freedoms?
ReplyDeleteYou said guns are not protecting our freedoms. How much faster and more abusive might the Govt. be if we did not have firearms?
You and jones girl should read socialism is evil parts I and II by Walter Williams.
Bush and most of the republicans in congress are not true republicans they are RINO's in other words democrat light.
Neither McCain or Obama are the right canidate for America. They both will violate their oath of office to uphold the constitution.
Obama/Biden por-gun??! Has anyone at this "newspaper" looked at their records on Second Amendment issues (also known as Civil Rights)? There's a word they might want to look up in the dictionary: it's "research". Used to be considered one of the pillars of accurate journalism. Without it, one writes merely unsubstantiated opinion or outright lies, as opposed to factual truth. I hope their degrees were obtained from an internet mill and not from an accredited school.
ReplyDeleteOops, that should have been "pro-gun??!". Sorry.
ReplyDeleteWhen the heller decision came out the first thing out of barry's mouth was, "I think they got it wrong". The heller case was about the CONSTITUTIONAL right to OWN guns. Heller never mentioned any "type" of weapon. Please explain what he believes if he thinks the supreme court got it wrong. by the bye, all handguns are BANNED in his district.
ReplyDeleteThe 2nd Amendment is not the right to "hunt" and "trapshoot", it's the right to bear arms and to defend one's self. Plain and simple.
ReplyDeleteObama's voting record shows his disregard for the 2nd amendment. Leave the NRA out of it, go to his published voting record and it will speak for itself.
Corey.. are you trying to go for the world's longest blog on one topic because I think you might just have accomplished it. :-)
Corey
ReplyDeleteThe issue of gun control is a very touchy one. When I ask you if you have a right to defend yourself do you say yes or no. If you think the 2nd ammendment is just about hunting I feel sorry for you. Here in your home county the number of concealed weapons holders according to the argusleader is 544 people hold pistol permits. This data is several years old and is probably larger now than when published. So out of your county 544 people feel the need to posses a permit to carry a concealed hand gun to defend themselves if they choose to. Once again proving the 2nd ammendment is about your right to bear arms and defend yourself.
Obama has voted for every gun control measure he ever met. He refused to sign the senate brief supporting the Heller case. Obviously, he only supports the right to keep and bear arms when he doesn't have to support the right to keep and bear arms.
ReplyDeleteobama biden laden is also against first amendment rights. There are ads that he is trying to prevent being broadcast, and he is threatening and using officials to try to intimidate radio stations to refuse obama critical ads. He implies that he can get the FCC to revoke their station license. Another tactic is getting the lemmings to flood the station phone lines, especially if a obama critic is a scheduled guest. What will he do if elected??
ReplyDelete