This blog printed on 100% recycled electrons.
Republican friends, do me this one favor: vote for someone, anyone, other than Gordon Howie in the June primary, just so I don't have to listen to his bull all the way to November.
Prime example: on his "Get to Know Gordon" page, our newest South Dakota gubernatorial candidate proudly pledges, "I will not expel God from South Dakota."
Good night Irene. Why not pledge not to run naked down Capitol Avenue barking like a dog? Why not pledge to breathe oxygen?
As if any other candidate is campaigning to expel God from South Dakota. As if any human could expel an omnipotent being from, well, anywhere. And as if making such an asinine statement does anything to help catch criminals or pay teachers or fill potholes.
Republicans, you do not want Howie's "my piety is bigger than yours" nonsense at the head of your ticket. You do not want to fight the culture war. Howie will lose in November, just like his abortion bans. Pick one of the pragmatists on your ticket and come debate Heidepriem on real issues like how to solve the Rounds deficit and fund education, not how to perpetuate some imaginary fundagelical persecution complex.
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Update 2010.01.12... or is it a downdate to note something I missed earlier? :-) Due credit to Badlands Blue for noting Howie's Christian and Republican persecution complexes last Friday. Only Gordon Howie could believe that God and Republicans are endangered in South Dakota.
Drinking Liberally Update (11/15/2024)
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In Politics: Nationally: The Election is over and the wrong side won. I
have nothing to contribute to the barrels of ink being used by Pundits to
explain a...
2 days ago
There you go conservatives, if Cory hates him, he must be our guy!!
ReplyDeleteYou as well as anyone that liberals despise any expression of Christian faith in the public square. They've been trying for decades to expel any sign, expression or manifestation of Christianity from the public eye.
ReplyDeleteYou can pretend and play all coy, but you liberals are too well known for informed people. Go pull somebody else's leg.
Steve and Bob:
ReplyDeleteGod needs Gordon Howie's help to evade eviction in South Dakota? You're not putting much faith in the power and abilities of God if you think His/Her savior is a mere mortal like Gordon.
I learned way back in my Missouri Synod Lutheran Sunday school that God was everywhere. So how is it possible for Him/Her to be expelled from our fair state? This is utter nonsense, I would think, to most Christians. And more nonsense that God needs to be reinstated by a state legislator.
Todd Epp
Middle Border Sun
http://www.middlebordersun.com
Todd, though I know you're not a Christian, even you understand that God cannot truly be banished from South Dakota. The entire universe is his, and he is anywhere he wants to be in it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, God in his infinite mercy won't force his blessings and protections on a people who reject him, who act as if they're ashamed of him or simply don't want his blessing.
Nations that do that--especially after having a tradition of embracing him as we did for nearly 200 years--have a tendency to experience great and miserable crashes.
You and Cory may be okay with tempting destruction, but I and thousands of God-fearing South Dakotans are not. We want to maintain our posture of welcome to God, and the attitude displayed in our state motto that "Under God, the people rule."
Bob:
ReplyDeleteSo Gordon Howie is God's instrument in SD not losing His/Her blessings? That seems to be verging on the insane to me.
And I also don't see how God or His/Her blessing are being kept from South Dakota when there is a Lutheran church on about every third corner across the state. The legislature opens every day with a prayer. Thousands of South Dakotans go to church. I don't see how God or his/her blessing have been banished from our state or how Gordo is going to keep that from happening.
I realize your faith is important to you. I have no problem with that. The right to believe or not believe or even believe crazy stuff is one of our most important rights as Americans. But when a political candidate claims to have God's ear, then I get concerned.
I too hope God is everywhere. I'm just not as convinced as you are. But I am convinced that God would not need Gordo to make sure God shared His/Her bounty with South Dakotans.
And Bob, not a criticism, but as a Buddhist, we don't believe in salvation but in working toward enlightenment. Actually, Buddhists really don't "believe" as the Buddha is not God or a god. We trust in logic and experience and science. The Dalai Lama has said that if science shows that a Buddhist precept is incorrect, we should change it to conform.
But one could be a Buddhist and a Christian (or Jew or Muslim or whatever) as the two concepts (salvation and enlightenment) are not self-exclusive.
Best regards,
Todd Epp
Middle Border Sun
http://www.middlebordersun.com
A God that needs Bob and Gordon to protect him sounds like a wuss to me.
ReplyDeleteAnd "posture of welcome"? Yeeeesh—that sounds like something involving grabbing my ankles.
Alas, such tired, formulaic faith, thinking God's blessings are contingent on our meager human actions... and on voting for the right candidate in a political race. Someone needs to read some Luther (grace, not works, boys).
"Someone needs to read some Luther (grace, not works, boys)."
ReplyDeleteCory,
Are you saying one can receive God's salvation by doing nothing?
Todd, you implied that I or someone else has indicated Gordon Howie was some sort of divine instrument of God's blessing. That is not the case at all.
ReplyDeleteIt also doesn't matter in the slightest how many Lutheran churches (or churches of other denominations) are in the state. What matters is that the people of our state have an attitude of thanksgiving to God for his blessings, and that we are not ashamed to be "seen with God" in public, that we give the rightful, historic and traditional recognition of God's blessing on our land when we do things his way and don't try to ignore him.
Right now in South Dakota, we do a pretty good job of acknowledging our dependence on God's blessing and the role is values play in the health of our society. But only a liar or someone profoundly uninformed would try to deny that nationally and across our nation there is an effort to remove all Christian expression from the public arena. We don't want that kind of secularist, anti-Christian effort taking root here, and it's much less likely to if we have a chief executive who is committed to preventing it.
Anyone can have God's ear, just for the asking. There is no special formula for having God's ear, and you don't have to be anybody special or do anything special to have God's ear. All you have to do is lay down your pride and commit your life to God. Gordon Howie doesn't have anything that you or I or anyone else can't have.
Finally, I must correct you on one thing for certain: while one may embrace some beliefs from both Christianity and Buddhism, one can not be a Buddhist and a Christian. Jesus Christ makes an exclusive claim on faith. He said that he is THE way and THE truth and THE life; not A way or A truth or A life. Either you put your full faith in Christ as the source of truth and the source of redemption, or you have no part of him.
You're entitled to believe otherwise in our great land of religious freedom. But our nation was founded by Christians on Christian principles, as was our state, and we have been exceedingly blessed because of that. We would be utterly foolish to abandon that which has so richly blessed us, and that is what Howie is committed to prevent.
Cory, I think you're also smart enough to know that God doesn't need the likes of me or Gordon Howie to protect him. He does, however, appreciate people who aren't too much of a wuss to let folks know they follow him.
ReplyDeleteYou might consider yourself caught in "something involving grabbing my ankles" if you find yourself on the opposite side of God's mercy at Judgment day; in fact, that posture will be pretty preferable to the horrors of Hell.
And speaking of grace, you should know that it's grace, not license, as you promote. Grace and license to do wrong are not even remotely connected, and it's irresponsible to mislead people by even loosely confusing the two.
Shaking my head in disbelief.
ReplyDeleteBob, of course God needs you to protect him. That's why he asked you to do it. Man, I thought you understood this stuff.
ReplyDeleteYou are woefully, miserably mistaken, Mr. Kurtz. You either haven't bothered to learn anything about Christianity beyond the most superficial myth-making of pop culture, or someone has sorely deceived you.
ReplyDeleteJesus accepted the humble and repentant. He had rather harsh words for those who displayed stiff-necked resistance to his truth, and for those who misled people into the gates of Hell as liberalism does.
You might start with Jesus "acceptance" of people who led others to Hell in Matthew chapter 12 and especially chapter 23. Luke 17:1 has another example of Christ's "acceptance" of people who refuse to obey him and who lead others into sin with their excuses and license of immorality.
Consider also the words of Christ's most prolific New Testament apostle, Paul, in Romans 1:21, or 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (maybe it's just me, but this sounds very exclusive and, um, non-accepting).
Galatians 5:19 doesn't sound very "accepting" of sinful license, either.
The book of Jude (in verses 4 and 7, for instance) contain more "acceptance" of license to sin.
You might want to consider the words of Ezekiel 3:18-21 as you dispense advice on how to be a sin-embracing "Christian."
It is quiet obvious you don't have a single clue what it means to be a Christian. I can tell you briefly that it does not mean the mealy-mouthed pap you have apparently been fed. Being a Christian (which, incidentally, means to be "Christ-like" or to "follow Christ") means, among other things, teaching others all that God has taught us, as was commanded to us in the Great Commission. We cannot reasonably call ourselves a "Christian" if we are excusing sin and encouraging others to ignore what God has clearly said.
One final piece of advice: don't ever for a second consider looking for advice on Christianity at NPR: that libera propaganda organization will fast-track you into the jaws of Hell.
I hope you stop looking for truth there and start looking in God's word before it's too late.
larry,
ReplyDeleteYour position that Jesus was a liberal is not Biblical. The Progressives who say Jesus was a socialist are way off base. This is from II Thessalonians 3:6-10:
6In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
And we can also apply the food principle to health care and the Indians.
Ah, I see Mr. Kurtz. You don't even believe in the Bible you so sorely misrepresented before. Typical.
ReplyDeleteA great number of people who claim Christianity is this liberal thing or that mealy-mouthed thing usually don't even come close to believing in it in the first place.
Sooner or later you will eventually have to face the truths found in that Bible you hold in such disdain. If you wait until too much later, there won't be any time left to escape judgment. I hope you get right before then.
For now, though, I've wasted enough time casting pearls before swine who have no appreciation of their value.
"Cory,
ReplyDeleteAre you saying one can receive God's salvation by doing nothing?"
You have not answered the question Cory. You demand answers in regard to Full Reserve Banking, but you don't think you need to do the same? Does not sound like you are following the Golden Rule.
And did you send larry to shame Bob away with personal attacks?
Bob can quote all the scripture he wants, but it won't change the fact that he clearly doesn't understand the most fundamental of the Judeo/Christian commandments (#1 on both Moses's and Jesus' list) as per his assertion that "God doesn't need the likes of me or Gordon Howie to protect him."
ReplyDeleteI notice he is mute on this point. That's because it would be impossible for him to BS his way out of such a colossal theological blunder without committing even further blasphemy.
Okay, Bob, one more time, if God and Jesus don't NEED you, who does?
p.s. Note here the various definitions of the word "need." http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/need
Bob,
ReplyDeleteWe should expect a bunch of Progressives to reject God, but then think they deserve His blessings. Such is the entitlement mindset. These people think they deserve to have what they want, but someone else has to pay for it.
I have not forgot how they wanted to stop with the "moral legislation" such as abortion bans and instead have the legislature spend its time arguing over money. Rejecting God's morality in order to be greedy. Very sad.
Steve:
ReplyDeleteI don't expect God's or anyone else's blessing. But if such a blessing is given to me, regardless of source and it is sincere, I think that is touching and I am grateful.
And Bob, I don't think public spaces should have religious observances or object in them unless it is of a historical nature, regardless of religion or creed. But the US Supreme Court has set out some rather complicated rules for what is and is not allowed. I think it is all an establishment of religion by the government. And it's not the government's job to tell any of us how to believe. I thought you were for limited government?
And to get back to Gordo. He said he wouldn't expel God from SD. Why would that thought even cross his mind? Did have have thoughts that he might? Have any of the other candidates said they would expel God from our fair state? I doubt they could if they wanted to.
Again, Steve and Bob, if your religion gives you comfort and helps you to be better people and even saves your soul, more power to you. I honor and respect that. But like it or not, the US is a multi-cultural nation with people believing all sorts or things. We all have to tolerate each other's views but that doesn't give anyone the right to impose them either.
I'm just sayin'.
At least compared to some of the folks at the Sioux City Journal blog pages, this has been a civil and non-anonymous debate--the way it should be.
Todd Epp
Middle Border Sun
http://www.middlebordersun.com
Steve, do Jesus and God need you? Just checkin'.
ReplyDeleteOk, except for maybe Larry's BMI crack, it's been civil. Buddha (at least the tubby Chinese Buddha, not the skinny Indian Buddha) and Todd wouldn't have done well on that scale either.
ReplyDeleteSteve, I make no claim to salvation. I'm not entitled to it, and I'm not pretending that any formula of prostration or sloganeering can get it for me. Salvation, if available, is someone else's call.
ReplyDeleteAnd as Todd ably reminds us, the original point is that declaring "I won't expel God from this state!" is a patently absurd, meaningless statement.
[Nastiness at Sioux City, Todd? See: the mainstream media is bad for your country's health. ;-) ]
ReplyDeleteBill, you are one of those swine I mentioned previously (Matthew 7:6), as evidenced by your compulsion to quibble when the meaning of a statement is obvious (Matthew 22:15-18). If you care anything at all about doing what the Bible says, you've mistaken "childlike faith" (Matthew 18:2-4) with acting childishly (1 Corinthians 13:11, Hebrews 5:12-14).
ReplyDeleteIf you wish to prattle further, you may do so to yourself because I've already wasted too much time in this engagement on people like yourself who have no eyes to see or ears to hear (Matthew 13:15).
Steve: good point!
Of course, Bob won't discuss this. He doesn't even understand his own religion as he has just, for the second time, here demonstrated.
ReplyDeleteLet's try again, shall we? Bob, in one word, what is it God needs from you?
ReplyDelete"Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake,
ReplyDeletefor theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
Yes thanks for that, "Friend"
"Salvation, if available, is someone else's call."
ReplyDeleteNo Cory, it is entirely up to you to decide for yourself. We can only provide you with the truth. It is up to you to accept or reject it.
"Let's try again, shall we? Bob, in one word, what is it God needs from you?"
ReplyDeleteBill,
Your question shows that you don't get it. You and Cory missed Howie's point completely.
A wise man fears, and departs from evil: but the fool rages, and is confident. Proverbs 14:16
ReplyDelete"America is what happens when community organizers overthrow tyrants."
ReplyDeleteIt was community organizers who put the tyrant into the White House.
No, Stevie, your answer shows that you don't get it. It's a simple answer. One word. Every catechism kid knows it. Your and Bob's refusal to discuss it speaks volumes. Volumes. Neither of you have any spiritual credibility whatsoever. None. Sad.
ReplyDeleteCompassion.
ReplyDeleteLove.
ReplyDeleteDominus vobiscum
ReplyDeleteBill,
ReplyDeleteWhat is the definition of love?
love = agapeseis (Greek)
ReplyDeletesee also "agape"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape
"the love that consumes," i.e., the highest and purest form of love, one that surpasses all other types of affection." ...divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful" "...also called parental love." "an intentional response to promote well-being when responding to that which has generated ill-being."
...as in:
"And he answering said Thou shalt LOVE the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy strength and with all thy mind and thy neighbour as thyself"
Steve, here's a link. Choose your favorite translation:
http://bible.cc/luke/10-27.htm
[Housekeeping: "larry kurtz" is out. he's spoofing us with a false name and bogus profile links. Sorry I didn't catch that sooner... and sorry for the disjointed conversation resulting from the deletions.]
ReplyDeleteBill,
ReplyDeleteTry defining "love" without using the word "love".
Mr. Heidelberger, I will be coming through Madison Tuesday. Want to meet for coffee?
ReplyDeleteHoly cow, Larry! Tuesday -- I'd love to! Sorry to have doubted your authenticity. Game on... and comments, too!
ReplyDeleteYou enjoy tremendous respect for a bloggozoid; bridge-building can often go very badly.
ReplyDeleteDarmok and Jalad on the ocean.
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ReplyDeleteStevie, the word substituted was "affection" and then the specific attributes thereof. Also, the word "agape." Do you not have your reading glasses on? Do you need new ones? ;^)
ReplyDeleteGilgamesh and Enkidu challenge the Bull of Heaven?
ReplyDeleteIf you still have my number, ping me and tell me the place and time.
ReplyDeleteTemba, his arms open
"Stevie, the word substituted was "affection" and then the specific attributes thereof. Also, the word "agape.""
ReplyDeleteSo you are saying God needs "agape"?
Requires it, Sibby. Read the commandment. Then reread the definition of "need". It's all right there in Luke, who is quoting the master himself.
ReplyDeleteIn short, I'm not saying it. Jesus said it.
Bill,
ReplyDeleteI think you got a hold of some paganism.
Steve, give me a break.
ReplyDeleteBill,
ReplyDeleteIf you google agape and pagan you will find this:
What is Agape Love?
Again according to Wikipedia, it is represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful love. A title of the goddess Isis was agapeh theon, or "beloved/darling of the gods". This concept implies a genuine affection and deep love. It has been extended to mean the love of humanity for god and the love of god for humanity.
In the New Testament it states that God is Love. For most neo-pagans, LOVE is caring and love of all of creation. This is one of the primary tenants of most neo-pagan, Wicca, and Heathen paths.
To demonstrate Agape Love, one then must respect and honor oneself, other humans, and all creation. Therefore, when one practices Green Economics, one is showing Agape love for the natural world.
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ReplyDeleteSteve, don't be an idiot. The Gospel of Luke was written in Greek. The word used for "love" in the original Greek was "agape." That's all there is to it.
ReplyDeleteNow if you want to argue that Luke should have written his Gospel in some other "non-pagan" language, you'll have to take that up with him.
Having verified the identity of Mr. Kurtz and apologized for deleting his earlier comments, I repost his text here:
ReplyDelete------[1/12/2010 10:20 PM]------
Mr. Ellis (SDR?):
It would seem that you and Joseph Smith have much in common. You are cordially invited to listen to this report:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/12/29/midday2
Jesus of Nazareth taught acceptance, poverty, and liberalism; calling yourself a Christian is like calling the late Shah of Iran a Muslim.
------[1/12/2010 11:08 PM]------
Mr. Ellis; those gospels were written long after Jesus of Nazareth beamed up by politicians seeking to up-end a tyrannical, crumbling empire.
Your reference to God's infinite mercy is metaphor at best, temporal lobe epilepsy at worst.
Perhaps, your reliance on land-based Omega 6 and 9-based protein sources find you suffering from depression. More Omega-3 based foods and vitamin-D supplements will help with that.
You know the drill: loaves and fishes?
-----[1/13/2010 12:41 AM]-----
Mr.Ellis: you and I have met; your BMI is a very large number. Do you, an obese man, believe that God judges you by your sin of gluttony?
-----[1/13/2010 8:16 AM]-----
Whoa Mr. Sibson, I know Cory not
Hurt feelings are often part of the roadmap outlining the course to a modus vivendi;
Mr.Ellis' argument is based on a work of literature;it can be difficult to determine the size of the needle's eye when it seems to vary each time Mr. Ellis describes it.
Just trying to get a bead on his waddling target.
-----[1/13/2010 1:47 PM]-----
Civil dialogue is all well and good when the motives are transparent; however, an ambush from a hunter's blind built in an apple tree should be reserved for those who rely on the kill to feed the hungry; but, it is morally reprehensible to lure an animal in just to slaughter it.
Exposing hypocritheocracy is a just jihad.
-----[1/13/2010 3:29 PM]-----
Iran is what happens when theocrats overthrow tyrants; America is what happens when community organizers overthrow tyrants.
-----[1/13/2010 4:17 PM]-----
Mr. Sibson, perhaps it could be said that the Supreme Court of the United States is a community organizing body; your statement of fact doubtless astounds those of us who otherwise might have thought you doltishly uninformed.
Thank you for your perspicacity.