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Friday, April 9, 2010

Dog Bites Man; Bob Ellis Wrong; Howie Is Teabagger

And now for something maybe five people in South Dakota give half a hoot about:

Start your weekend right with this small example of how Bob Ellis is flat wrong. He responds to a commenter on his "Dakota" Voice blog with this comment about Tea Bags:

I've been monitoring the Tea Party movement since the very first day it started, and have been deeply involved with the Tea Party movement for almost that long, and I have yet to hear or read of a single Tea Party person referring to themselves as a "teabagger." I have only heard "mainstream" media members and other liberals use this obscene term, usually because they have no meaningful or legitimate counter to the charges of financial irresponsibility leveled by the Tea Party movement [Bob Ellis, comment, "Dakota" Voice, 2010.04.07].

If Mr. Ellis spent less time listening to the sound of his own Voice, he might have noticed this:

He’s the main tea party man hereabouts.

And he’s just fine with “teabagger.”

“I will stand up proudly and say I’m a teabagger,” Republican state Sen. Gordon Howie said today.

...Howie doesn’t think the use of “teabagger” in describing those involved in the Tea Party movement is the least bit effective at that.

Nor is he offended by it.

“I will stand up proudly and say, ‘I’m a teabagger,’” he said.

All I can say to that is: Hear-hear, senator, hear-hear [Kevin Woster, "Standing up proudly for the true meaning of the term," Mount Blogmore, 2009.12.29].

Woster's article was cited in this blog post about Gordon Howie, to which Mr. Ellis has submitted over a dozen comments, at least five of them before his comment about not one "single Tea Party person" adopting the term in question. (Ah, but Mr. Howie is a married Tea Party person.)

Ellis can ignore us libs all he wants. But Ellis is shouting his platitudes so loudly, he can't even hear the comments of his own guy, the most prominent Tea Bag actually running for office in South Dakota.

Let's throw a few more pebbles at Mr. Ellis's Cone of Isolation:
  1. Tea Party protesters used the term "teabag" in its sexual context at the earliest Tea Party events. The movement gave liberals the idea.
  2. This right-wing blogger advocated co-opting the term à la early Christians back in August.
  3. Apparent conservatives debate co-opting the term at ResistNet.com.
  4. Google "I'm a teabagger" and "proud"... those results are all just liberals perpetrating a vast hoax, right?
  5. I assume the wearers of these items would embrace the verb and noun forms.
  6. "There are even signs at Tea Party movement events that proclaim 'I'm proud to be a teabagger.'"
Sigh. Shrug.


  1. More of your usual 7th-Grader-level offerings, I see...

    Alright, you're right...sorta. Apparently one Tea Party person did call themselves by that...sorta.

    I worked with Gordon in the Tea Party movement nearly a year and never once heard him use the term outside of this media interview. Gordon didn't even know what the term meant, and told me today that he still doesn't...but knows enough from the connotations surrounding it that he doesn't want to know.

    Liberals who have no legitimate defense for the unconstitutional government and socialism the Tea Party movement stands against uses this term as a slur, as a way to attempt to demean or diminish the Tea Party movement, and to attempt to embarrass good people about being involved with the Tea Party movement. Most of the left knows that it is a slang term to describe a particular homosexual activity, and since the "mainstream" media has taken to using the term also, a lot of regular Americans have either looked it up or had it explained to them. It is the epitome of "name calling" because it has no basis whatsoever in truth, and does nothing whatsoever to describe its object.

    When Gordon Howie made the statement you quoted, he was refusing to allow you and the rest of your liberal friends separate him from the Tea Party movement. As he told me, "If they insist on using a deviant term like that, I can't stop them. But I'm not going to let it detract from my belief in the Tea Party movement and its principles."

    As for these other obscure references you dredged up, I have no idea where they came from. As I said, I've been involved in the Tea Party movement locally for over a year, and have followed the movement nationally, and apparetly you have access to some secret cadre of homosexual "teabaggers" that I simply have had no contact with. For all I know, they may be some of these "crash the tea party" types who are attempting to latch themselves onto the Tea Party movement (like Mr. Thompson, perhaps, who feigned sympathy for the Tea Party movement until I finally got him to reveal the full-fledged liberal that he is). You and your childish camrades might be convinced by your boorish mudslinging, but mature Americans are.

    So once again your juvenile attempts to discredit and demean patriotic defenders of freedom falls flat.

    As I have done many times before, I again invite you to be open and honest about your love for socialism, explain to us why socialism is superior to the American way of life, and why socialism is so divine that it must be allowed to trump the U.S. Constitution and the freedoms that generations of Americans have fought and died for.

    Just some honesty--that's all I'm asking for.

  2. Mr. Heidelberger:

    Your persistent deference with Sen. Howie is most unbecoming as he clearly represents the overwhelming sentiment defining South Dakota's majority party.

    I find it troubling that you have chosen to assail Mr. Howie with such vituperative rhetoric.

    It is my deepest wish that the application of a less polarizing tone might foster that clear choice at the ballot box come November.

    Please join me in supporting Gordon Howie's quest to become South Dakota's Republican candidate for governor

    Thank you,
    Larry Kurtz

  3. Seems something along the same lines happened a few generations ago with the term "yankee."

  4. Interesting linguistic possibilities, Stan! Which origin do you buy?

    Larry, note I offer no assailance of Mr. Howie here. i cite him simply to demonstrate that the Mr. Ellis is self-absorbed to the point that he doesn't even listen to his own people.

    And Bob: hilariously irrelevant. I make just a couple simple points:

    (1) Chief South Dakota Tea Bag Gordon Howie says the word debate is old, so get over it.

    (2) You made a false statement.

    Were I in your shoes, I'd have resonded with one line: "My bad! Sorry!"

  5. Condensed from WikiPedia, I would say something like this applies:

    "... As early as the 1770s the British often used the term for any American ... Outside the country, "Yankee" or "Yank" is a slang term, sometimes but not always derogatory ..."

    I think "teabagger" is an excellent term, because "tea party" suggests that these people constitute a defined political party, which, in my understanding, they do not.

    If I were a "teabagger" (and I'm close, but not quite there yet) I would take to the term with gusto. I'd say, "Yeah, I'm a 'teabagger.' What of it?"

  6. Yeah, you're probably right, Stan. "Teabaggers" are probably a kinder, gentler type of compassionate conservative, unlike the old school Republican "Ball Busters."

  7. This is a song Charles Manson stole from the Beatles; we're stealing it back.

    Stan, I'm with you on both counts. "Tea Party" bugs me because no party exists. Even within their mostly right-wing parameters, the movement encompasses enough disparate interests that the imagery and the marketing title are all they have to identify them.

    I've never used teabagger in its offensive sense. I've never heard any of my acquaintances use it in that sense. The crude usage is so non-mainstream, the political teabaggers should reclaim it and run with it. For Pete's sake: we Dems are thick-skinned enough to keep a jackass as our symbol. If the Tea Bags can be distracted so easily from substantive debate on the issues, they'll go nowhere.

    So come on, teabaggers! Balls to the wall!

  8. I prefer tea party because teabagger both brings the crude meaning to mind and also phoeneticly it makes me think of carpet-bagger, or just buggered. Since it is meant to call back to the Boston Tea Party I see no problem as I don't recall those men being part of a defined political party. I'd like some better sounding third alternative honestly.

    The Rebel Alliance?

  9. Barb Lindberg4/10/2010 11:21 PM

    Cory, Cory, Cory.... It's been awhile since I've "checked on things" here at Madville Times. But see that nothings changed much - when you can't deal with the real issues of what makes up this vast growing Tea Party Group(s) - you throw punches at the messengers of these standards, principals and focusing pressure points. You really have no clue about the Tea Party Groups - both Nationally or Individually in cities all over America.

    Sad, but no worries. I'd keep looking over your shoulder though - we're closer than you realize... gaining strength and power everyday, and most of us - how did someone say... something about "having balls". Hummm - I think we're more interested in "BACKBONE" instead. We're not looking to just kick tires and spit - puff our front pockets out for some one night stand. That's just so old hat and boring.

    We're in this for the long haul - so get used to us. Call us what you want.... tomorrow morning we'll still be merging as the fastest growing movement in the Nation.

    Meanwhile, we'll just keep forging forward - keeping people like you guessing, while gathering as many as we can. In that, who knows.... one day after Obama has built and stoked up the infernos, you might appreciate those of us who prepared, organized and made ready the safety of you and your family.

  10. Barb,

    I doubt that Obama has any actual infernos in his plan for America, in the sense of "the ovens" from you-know-where and you-know-when; but I do believe that his administration is already stoking the figurative infernos -- unwittingly -- for an economic disaster in 2011 and 2012.

    It is this inferno into which, if we conservatives "play our cards" right and don't get carried away with hysteria, the Democrats will escort themselves. The irony of it all will go down in the history books for the enlightenment of generations to come.

    I refrain from further elaboration right now, because quite frankly I want to see the leftists in this country trip their own trap, and I don't wish to do anything that might reduce the chance of it taking place so that we can all resume the business of making "progress" in the true American tradition.

    So there! Aloha!

  11. Don't tut me, Barb. Bob's the one who offered the initial hypersensitive and incorrect response about terminology for your "movement." I simply pointed out his error. Deal with it.

    And no, I do not feel your "movement" is doing anything to enhance my family's safety. Your "movement" (and I keep using quote marks, because I keep thinking of Brownian motion: lots of movement, but scattered, random, lacking direction... unless you want to claim Dick Armey's astroturf organizing, big corporate media hyping, or co-opting by the GOP as your direction) makes my family less safe by fanning hate and proposing incompatible policies that would wreck the good government we have available to protect everyone's liberties, not just the privileges of the rich and noisy.

    Bring your vast brave conspiracy on, Barb. Bring on more tricorner hats. bring on more of Bob's histrionic reënactments of the Revolutionary War. The more you show of your true agenda, the more the majority of Americans will see you have nothing but playacting to offer.

    We have nothing to fear but fearful folks like you, making up bogus images of tyranny in the freest, most democratic country in the world.

  12. Stan,

    Everything you used to write was moderate and reasonable. Now you sound like Rush Limbaugh. You hope for failure?

    When "patriots" blather about "give me back my America" I feel sick. We've never been anywhere near any such ideal (our wealth is at the top). Teabaggers are mostly a bunch of white people that see their lives declining, a loss of security, and they are mad and scared. Who isn't! But don't make them grand. They remind me too much of my bigoted uncle with a megaphone.

    Glenn Beck has written 7 books in 3 years. He must really be brilliant. Come on.

  13. The tea party faction wants to take South Dakota back, by supporting more of the same that we have had. In the Fall they will all be voting for mainstream Republicans or not at all.
    The Lakota plan to take South Dakota back makes more sense.

  14. Stan's a cup and a half more reasonable in his conservative urges than what hear from Gordon. I'll cut him slack there, John... even when he's mistaken. ;-)

    Barry, right on: I still don't get from whom Gordon plans to "take back" South Dakota. Republican Mike Rounds? Republican Dennis Daugaard? The Republican House and Senate that he's been part of for years? Come on, Gordon: what do your slogans mean?

  15. Let's call it what it is. The Tea Party is a reactionary movement. Period. There is nothing revolutionary about them. They are the same Federalist Tories who sided with Britain in 1776 and the War of 1812 and who defended slavery and secession in the Civil war.

    To the degree they are any less reactionary it is because they have been tempered by a few rational Republicans who still have some of their wits about them. But alas, even that seems to be a losing battle.

  16. I think Bill would also equate Thomas Payne and J Madison with Tories. He seems to think fighting against progressive change is nothing more than resistance to any change at all. Personally, I identify with the Tea Party because value individual freedom over just about any common good justification progressives use. I am not just opposed to your policy, I am opposed to your values.

  17. Not at all, Roger, but if you examine the Tea Party positions honestly, point by point, from state to state, you will see that they advocate for the status quo ante at a minimum, and in many cases, the status quo antebellum, even to the inclusion of all three wars.

    They're trying to create the very type of theocracy that the founders founders fled the new world to escape.

    And your very rhetoric smacks of the same foul circular reasoning predominant in the Salem Witch trials. Values indeed. Give us a break, Roger.

  18. Economics is the major drive, more than ethnocentrism which is definitely a part of it. Someone like Stan is in our state only because we have no income taxes and a low cost of living and he would like to keep every dollar he earns. That's not the American values I yearn for, but I do share Teabagger concerns. Gehl manufacturing was virtually closed for a year. Can you imagine worrying about your kids or grandchilren and what hopes they have? I get that, but react differently. Certain necessities, like health care, give people a chance. A fair shake, and having a fair shake benefits us all. With horrible financial pressures Teabaggers are thinking short term and worrying only about their own butt (quite reasonable considering). But our economy will turn around and things like health care will bring everyone up. I'm not saying we build a house for everybody. I'm saying we need a healthier nation so they can build their own house. And financial reform so this doesn't happen again. On that, blame the big fat greedy (mostly) Republicans. In fact, I'm saying Teabaggers have more in common with Democrats.

  19. a quarter hoot of interest here....and who says the teabaggers are kinder and gentler...whoa...Ellis and Howie working together ought to remind everyone of they great evil partnerships of the past...like Laurel and Hardy.

  20. Let's call it what it is. The Tea Party is a react...
    from Comments - Madville Times by Bill Fleming
    Let's call it what it is. The Tea Party is a reactionary movement. Period. There is nothing revolutionary about them. They are the same Federalist Tories who sided with Britain in 1776 and the War of 1812 and who defended slavery and secession in the Civil war.

    To the degree they are any less reactionary it is because they have been tempered by a few rational Republicans who still have some of their wits about them. But alas, even that seems to be a losing battle.


    Are you looking for a job in the old Pravda of the Soviet Union, Bill? I have news for you: your glorious socialist revolution failed there just as it does everywhere.

    But the brazenness of your propaganda about the Tea Party movement is certainly worth of the kind of inverse lies that used to come out of the Soviet Union and every other socialist utopia.

    To compare the Tea Party movement to the Tories who sided with Britain? You couldn't get more exactly wrong if you used a mirror.

    The Tea Party of today, like that of the American Revolution, stands against extreme taxation and big government. It is you and your socialist ilk who are exactly like the Tory loyalists who prized autocratic government. You socialists apparently find freedom and self-determination too much of a burden to bear for yourselfs, so you want to take us all back to the same type of yoke we fought to be free of 234 years ago.

    You and your sniveling socialists are the same kind of people of whom Samuel Adams said, "“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”

    I'll say this for you, though: you're always good for a laugh of derision. You're a fine local example of the kind of lies and attempted deception we've come to consistently expect from Marxists. You're also a living example of Isaiah 5:20.

    Come on Bill. Be courageous: choose right over wrong. Join your fellow Americans in standing for freedom. Be brave enough to desire freedom for yourself and for your fellow Americans. I guarantee you won't regret it.

  21. The Teabaggers will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Or so says Michele Bachmann. Same party, same big money corporate special interests... same working class voters being tricked into voting against their own interests.

  22. Cuba is not a failed state. Perfect? Hardly. Humble? Yes. Egalitarian? Mostly.

    Recyling is a way of life. Cuban art and music is world-class. Medical care is world-class. Education is world-class.

    From Wikipedia: According to the UN, the life expectancy in Cuba is 78.3 years (76.2 for males and 80.4 for females). This ranks Cuba 37th in the world and 3rd in the Americas, behind only Canada and Chile, and just ahead of the United States. Infant mortality in Cuba declined from 32 (infant deaths per 1,000 live births) in 1957, to 10 in 1990–95 [126]. Infant mortality in 2000–2005 was 6.1 per 1,000 live births (compared to 6.8 in the USA).

  23. Bob, read the definition of "reactionary."

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It's a duck.

    Now, tell me with a straight face that you are the opposite of reactionary. (...because the opposite of a reactionary IS a progressive.)

    What a total fool you are sometimes, Bob. I tell ya.

    A laugh a minute.

  24. p.s. looks like Ellis is projecting again with that "Isaiah 5:20." Woe is Bob. I do have a bible thing for him to answer for me sometime though. What's up with that whole "born again" thing with Nicodemus? Maybe, word scholar that he is, he can lay that out for us sometime.

  25. Michele Bachmann is one crazy nut. Do the Teabaggers care if what she says makes any sense? “In Minnesota an energy tax would effectively double our monthly utility bills.” Yeah, that's believable. Stir up the fools, cause they're the only ones listening. I would love to see a psychological profile done on that woman and the media call her out on every stupid thing she says.

  26. As if there were doubts, here's a top ten of Bachmanns loonier moments. It's hard to pick a favorite, but watch the one on census. Glenn Beck wonders if they may take away away his gun permit if he doesn't fill it out.


  27. John SD:

    You note, "Someone like Stan is in our state only because we have no income taxes and a low cost of living ..."

    Well, yeah, John, that's doggone right -- except that I'd delete the word "only."

    And I would indeed like to keep every penny I earn, as do 47 percent of American households. Or so it seems, if the news Web sites of late are telling us the truth.

    I lived in Hawaii for awhile and would have stayed despite their high taxes, were it not for the great distances I had to travel to come back (to Minnesota) and visit family. I would have stayed because of the weather -- maybe in that case, "only" because of the weather!

    As for my earlier comment concerning my "hope that the Dems fail" -- well, if their intent is to remake America in the image of European "social democracies," then I do hope they fail. But I do not want America to go into an economic tailspin.

    I had a feeling that comment would get a rise; you know, sometimes we all shoot off at the keyboard.

    Actually, if the Dems succeed and everyone is better off as a result, then good for them! I just don't think their plan is going to work. Our economy needed strong medicine in 2009, and the Obama administration (in my opinion) administered the right medicine in more or less the right amounts. But now, the patient no longer needs that medicine. The withdrawal symptoms are abating; there is no longer any need for economic benzodiazepine. Yet the Dems seem to not only want to stick with the same medicine, but increase the dose.

  28. I've recently liked the term Coffee Party, maybe that's too liberal for em', but Teabaggers makes me grin too!

    This entire exchange is about usage of a otherwise passive term, that when properly applied, refers to well, laughing a bit too much here.

    Maybe this great party, and Glenn too, should have composed another 'book' or 'pamplet' prior to their 'national movement' concerning the proper useage of their namesake identity.

    Honestly, when you cook something up overnight, and rally the troops, make sure you 'google' your branding, otherwise you'll be blaming the vast left-wing conspiracy for imposing this horrible curse upon poor little liberty-loving you.

    Still laughing here, I'll continue...

    Maybe we can come to an equal agreement, Glenn and the rest of us, a great healing moment. You crazy teabaggers can blame us for the usage of said cursed term, 'teabaggers', if we all can blame you for the curse of this ongoing distraction called the 'Teabaggers Party' and 'I've seen Russia Palin' too!

    Or can we call you the 'Coffee Party', something like 'the best part of wakin' up, is a teabagger in your cup'

    Having a bit too much fun here, Cory's in the right here, let the man be, blog on good friend. We should get together for some liberal tea sometime!

  29. A link to spur some more angry repartee. An Andrew Sullivan post about the tea party folk.

    Maybe I misread the previous post through the chuckling. The coffee party's mission statement seems to be more than a "little too liberal" for the tea folk. "The Coffee Party Movement gives voice to Americans who want to see cooperation in government. We recognize that the federal government is not the enemy of the people, but the expression of our collective will, and that we must participate in the democratic process in order to address the challenges that we face as Americans. As voters and grassroots volunteers, we will support leaders who work toward positive solutions, and hold accountable those who obstruct them." (http://www.coffeepartyusa.com/)

  30. Chris Francis4/11/2010 9:38 PM

    My appologies to the real and actual Coffee Party, looks like that one's taken too Glenn and company, guess you'll have to stick with 'teabagging' it!

    Let's start an online poll, here on Madville, since we already have 30 comments 'in the bag' to rename these 'teabaggers', today's 4/11, so maybe we should wait till 4/12 or something.

    Looks like a good ole' time for all of you all, liberty lovern' and 'freedom fries' eatin' good ole' folks...I kid, I kid...This sure is fun, admit it, don't be shy about it...

  31. Larry:"According to the UN, the life expectancy in Cuba is 78.3 years..."

    The great Cuban system is a crock. Criticizing the government is a crime in Cuba, with severe penalties. Journalist or researchers formally eliciting information critical of health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for the researcher, and for the people who speak. The Cuban Ministry of Health sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas. Infant mortality rates are manipulated in part by pressuring doctors (who are practically government slaves) to abort the pregnancy whenever screening shows a potential health problem that endangers the quotas. Once doctor decides to do this, patients have no right to refuse abortion. This is similar to other distorted comparisons to international infant mortality rates in countries that do not count live births the same way (ie the practice of counting frail or premature infants who die before the normal due date as miscarriages)
    To measure of a society's health care by life expectancy ignores the differences in lifestyles that impact it. There are reasons health in Japan started out so much better than in the US and as their health care system improved the overall health of their citizens has actually declined. diet and obesity among other trends simply matter more. To measure a health care system it is much more accurate to look at outcomes from the point of diagnosis in similar populations: An overweight 55 year old non-smoker diagnosed with lymphatic cancer. If you don't make an effort to correct for differences between populations you are looking for political points, not facts.

    Cuba is very effective at lower level education, but their college level educational system is lacking. I would also question the value of an effective educational system used to indoctrinate children in the glorious revolution. You might as well praise a theoretical Kansas school for being very effective in the teaching of creationism: Yay!

  32. Cory: "same working class voters being tricked into voting against their own interests."

    Learning skills from Bob on unsupported insults? Is your evidence of 'tricked' teabaggers simply that they believe things you reject in knee-jerk fashion? I'm either an idiot or I'm being tricked by GOP hacks because I see legitimacy in naming Obamacare unconstitutional socialism?

    Once again, I am not a fool, I am simply your enemy. At times we should vote against our interest when that interest is receiving government bribery.

  33. Bill: Reactionary is resistant to change. The more radical the change the more resistant. Calling the tea party reactionary is like calling the ideology of progressivism nothing more than a desire for radical change, without regard for what form that change would take. Reactionary is not an ideology, its just an adjective, wheras progressivism IS also an ideology

  34. Roger, the first sixty years of the United States reads like a lesson in forced colonialism, butchery, sedition, slavery, rape, genocide, ignorance, and ridicule.

    "Freedom's just another name for nothing left to lose."

  35. Obviously Roger's not read Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas," huh, Cory? There's a movie on it now, it seems. I wonder if Roger and Bob are in it?


  36. Larry: Go ahead and compare the years 1776-1836 in the United States to those same years in the country of your choice. You attack your own country in order to attack American Exceptional-ism by pointing furiously to atrocities that were unremarkable in the world at large and then ignoring everything that was happening here and nowhere else.

    Even better, We could look at the 1st 60 years of any other modern govts for comparisons. France, Cuba, USSR, China, Germany, Italy, India, Australia. Go ahead because the exercise should be hysterical.

  37. Exactly my point. How many civilians have been killed in Iraq by "American Exceptionalism?" A million?

  38. Frank! Kansas! Excellent reference, Bill. Add that to my Netflix queue!

  39. Is Iraq better off today than it was in 2002? Liberated?

  40. Bill: I haven't read it, as after listening to him on book tv when the book was released I had better things to do with my money.
    To hear Mr. Frank tell it the whole Republican party is a shell-game to con voters into giving money to the rich. The basic premise is that the poor and uneducated vote republican is at odds with the fact that proportionately those demographics don't vote at all.
    The book mistakenly maligns the economic status of Kansas as miserable with next to nothing to support that premise. Unemployment rates have been relatively low for 20 years, the agricultural economy is rapidly expanding. His focus on his town Shawnee is delusional. For three years in the 1990s, the Shawnee area's unemployment rate actually dipped below 3%, today only 3.3% of its citizens live below the poverty level, and it has grown by more than 27%.

    All of this is beside the point because you miss my original point: If the only reason you vote is because you expect it to personally benefit yourself economically you are a shallow and selfish voter. By that mentality every government worker should always vote for government expansion and higher taxes. This is why it is dangerous to burden the rich to help the lower economic demographics. It encourages exactly that selfishness because so many don't have to pay for the political bribes (like free healthcare) they receive.

  41. Larry: Are you still half asleep? your comment doesn't seem to relate to mine at all. I don't think any Americans were in Iraq in 1776, and the Ottoman empire that was there at the time has just a beautiful history - much better than ours Im sure. American exceptionalism would probably kept us out of Iraq for that matter, as it is something of a foreign adventure don't you think. As far as your mention of those killed, the number is wrong and the fault for marketplace bombings, death squads, and attacks on potential police recruits is purely Iraqi in origin - not American.

  42. Oh man, Roger, what planet are you from? Or at least what country? You're argument here is a bald face advocacy for oligarcy.

    Apparently you've not read your Abraham Lincoln lately:

    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

  43. p.s. Just like Roger and his ilk to presume to speak with authority on a book he's never read. You'll get an "F" for that in grad school, Roger. But here you just get a "BS." See how liberal we are?

  44. Once again, as if there was any doubt, racism is a part of this thing (at least for some):


    For that matter, whenever a group of people go on and on about patriotism it can be closer to Nationalism. Scared and struggling people respond to being told they are the best, and of course they need someone to blame. Bachmann, Beck and Palin are doing it quite well. Because they have a following the Republicans are forced to take them seriously which is legitimizing it. Inside I hope most Republicans are squirming, but they aren't gonna call it out if they can get the votes. Quite a country we live in. No flag out today.

  45. John,

    After reading about Glenn Beck's remark to the effect that he "doesn't give a flying crap about the political process" and that his outfit is "an entertainment company," this Republican (meaning me) has vowed never to have anything to do with the man again -- assuming that all these sources are not lying, and that he actually said it.

  46. Yes Bill, silly me I trusted the author speaking about his book at length to give me an idea of what the book was about. I don't claim to be an expert about it, so please inform me where I got it wrong

  47. Stan: Glenn has always despised the political process. Why should that bother you? Most people at least have some distaste for all the stupidity that goes on in campaigning and hypocritical political sniping. And Glenn has despised it more than most. How often has he said "It's about Right and Wrong, not Left and Right" The same goes for his company, did you think it was a church? Just because he owns an entertainment company doesn't mean it's any less meaningful to him. If you buy into the spin for even a second you might as well bookmark Mediamatters and unplug your brain.

    Bill: When were we talking about the value of capital versus labor? Seriously, you lost me.

  48. Tea Party Members Envision State Militia

    (AP) OKLAHOMA CITY – Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.

    I wonder if they want to wear brown shirts?


  49. John, you've totally got the Teabaggers down! Keep those sources coming!

  50. Roger, This is the quote from the Forbes article about Beck.

    With a deadpan, Beck insists that he is not political: "I could give a flying crap about the political process." Making money, on the other hand, is to be taken very seriously, and controversy is its own coinage. "We're an entertainment company,"
    That statement would seem to suggest what most rational people have known all along. Glenn Beck has comfortably climbed into the niche of people who don't like the way America is heading and is playing them like a fiddle, while he laughs all the way to the bank. In Becks case I guess that would be cries all the way to the bank.

  51. Barry: I was listening when he said the line on his radio program. Interpreting what he said that way is not a mistake, it's malicious and has no bearing on what Glenn meant. He meant politics, as in the machine, the stupid commercials, the lawyer-like avoidance of answering a straight question. To make it into an admission that he only says things to make more money, particularly saying it on the air for his entire audience, is an outright lie.

  52. Roger,

    Well, I sure know what it's like to be taken out of context.

    As for unplugging my brain, I wish I could do that sometimes ...

    ... but it runs on dilithium crystals fabricated to last a thousand years. Ach!

  53. Roger . While his explanation of his statements may satisfy you! The line about"controversy is its own coinage" is a simple statement that he creates controversy to make money. It is kinda hard to spin that one, especially for Beck since he is known for shooting off his mouth and actually saying what he really believes now and then.

  54. On Glenn:

    This isn’t the first time Beck has suggested he isn’t as radically conservative as he seems. In February he told USA Weekend that “you’d have to be an idiot” to “not notice the temperature change” caused by global warming, and that he thinks mankind may play a significant role in the phenomenon. Beck has previously described himself as “a rodeo clown” and conceded, “If you take what I say as gospel, you’re an idiot.”


    Glen felt compelled to "buy a home with a 'green' design and using energy-saving products", unless that's another lie from the left. They'll say anything to discredit that man!


  55. John's got it right. Glenn Beck is an entertainer, just like Vince Mcmahon. They both go over the top to give their respective audiences , what they want, and make a lot of money doing it. It is foolish to take either showman with more than a grain of salt.

  56. ...but then, Roger can't help himself. He is, if nothing else, a true believer. In that context, rationality is irrelevant.

  57. Barry: read the article more carefully please. The line about "controversy is its own coinage" is not a part of the quote by Glenn, it is commentary inserted by the article author. Are you asking me to explain the thoughts other people put in Glenn's mouth? All of these other lines I can personally confirm he did say, because I heard him say them, in context. I can also say that the meaning was entirely consistent with his message.

    “If you take what I say as gospel, you’re an idiot.”
    He has always tried to get his listeners to research and find answers for themselves. He wasn't saying spouting ridiculous fabrications, he was saying not to follow ANY leader blindly.

    “a rodeo clown”
    This is repeated by him on the air...often. So what? This is called self-deprecation. People who try to keep themselves humble do it. I ought to do it more.

    "not notice the temperature change"
    His opinion on global warming has changed...mostly in the opposite direction this quote implies. I could not find the USA article to see more context surrounding that quote, but he has never pushed against the existence of a global temperature change, instead attacking the proposed solutions by the Al Gore crowd like Cap and Trade as a useless.

    "buy a home with a 'green' design and using energy-saving products"
    So did George W Bush by the way. I didn't know we had to believe in global warming hysterics to want to be energy efficient. Glenn also proceeded to replace all the fluorescent light bulbs with incandescents because flourescent lighting sucks.a

  58. Roger . I stand corrected. The old eyes are seeing quotation marks were there arn't any. I should have said that, I agree with the author that controversy is it's own coinage. Beck has shown a great propensity for it. He is an entertainer , who gives his audience the answers that they want to hear, and says the things they would like say. It is irrational to think that there is anything more to it than pandering.

    Thanks for pointing out my error.

  59. How To Talk to a Tea Party Activist:


    Makes perfect sense (to me), but would it to Stan and Roger?


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